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i love pbs, i love big bird, i actually like you to. but i'm not going to keep spending money on things, borrowing money from china to pay for it. that's number one. number two, i'll take programs that are currently good programs but i think will be run more efficiently at the state level and send them to the state. number three, i'll make government more efficient, cut back the number of employees, combine some agencies into departments. my cutbacks will be done through attrition, by the way. this is the approach we have to take to get america to a balanced budget. the president said he'd cut the deficit in half. unfortunately, he doubled it. $1 trillion deficits for the last four years. the president's put in place as much public debt, almost as much debt held by the public as all prior presidents combined. >> mr. president, two minutes. >> when i walked into the oval office, i had more than a $1 trillion deficit greeting me. and we know where it came from. two wars that were paid for on a credit card, two tax cuts that were not paid
i love pbs, i love big bird, i actually like you to. but i'm not going to keep spending money on things, borrowing money from china to pay for it. that's number one. number two, i'll take programs that are currently good programs but i think will be run more efficiently at the state level and send them to the state. number three, i'll make government more efficient, cut back the number of employees, combine some agencies into departments. my cutbacks will be done through attrition, by the way....
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pbs's jim lehrer. let's watch. >> i'm sorry, jim, i'm going to stop the subsidy to pbs. i like pbs. i love big bird. actually like you, too, but i'm not going to keep spending money on things to borrow money from china to pay for it. >> chris, remember what he told us, he warned us a long time ago, we should have listened, he said he liked what? firing people. and he came out on the stage and demonstrated it for us. he was having a wonderful time. he well lirelished every moment. this is what we used to do at bain capital and this is what i'll do even when i'm president. eas easy. >> he took over the room as if there didn't need to be anybody else in the room except employee, some of whom won't be employees much longer. again back to the president. what do you think was going on in his head? you said you have to be in the moment. i would have been terrified if i were the president thinking how did this person, this not really great governor, this guy who was not really a person in so many ways politically, how is he dominating this air space right now, how can that be happening? >>
pbs's jim lehrer. let's watch. >> i'm sorry, jim, i'm going to stop the subsidy to pbs. i like pbs. i love big bird. actually like you, too, but i'm not going to keep spending money on things to borrow money from china to pay for it. >> chris, remember what he told us, he warned us a long time ago, we should have listened, he said he liked what? firing people. and he came out on the stage and demonstrated it for us. he was having a wonderful time. he well lirelished every moment....
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i like pbs. i love big bird. i actually like you, too. i'm not going to keep on spending money on things to borrow money from china to pay for. >> okay. mitt romney has never made it a secret he really likes firing people. he ruffled feathers when me proposed to cut federal funding for pbs. it wasn't because moderator jim lehrer worked for pbs since 1973. romney messed with the most popular bird in america, and twitter responded. big bird peaked at 17,000 tweets per minute and the #savesesamestreet became the top trending topic. >> i don't understand. you know, everything was just fine. why does it have to be this way? give me one good reason. >> well, that's the problem, pbs doesn't receive any direct money from the government. the government funds the corporation for public broadcasting, a profit -- a private non-profit corporation that distributes the subsidy to local pbs stations. in 2012, cpb was given $444.1 million. let's see. what is that? that's .012% of the federal budget. last year, pbs received just 5% of cpb's total appropria
i like pbs. i love big bird. i actually like you, too. i'm not going to keep on spending money on things to borrow money from china to pay for. >> okay. mitt romney has never made it a secret he really likes firing people. he ruffled feathers when me proposed to cut federal funding for pbs. it wasn't because moderator jim lehrer worked for pbs since 1973. romney messed with the most popular bird in america, and twitter responded. big bird peaked at 17,000 tweets per minute and the...
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i like pbs and big bird and i like you too. but i'm not going to keep spending moneythings i have to borrow money from china to pay for. >> so don't boo now. but i want to make sure i got this straight. he will get rid of regulations on wall street but he is going to crack down on seseme street. thank goodness somebody is finally cracking down on big bird. n who knew that he was responsible for the deficits elmo has to watch out. >> joining me now nbc's joy read. he is going to cut 1, 100th of 1% of the federal budget by cutting any subsidies that go to pbs, i don't know, i don't think he is going to get to that balanced budget with that. >> i don't think so. but he will stop those socialists muppets. the problem with the idea of cutting such a small piece of the budget with pbs is medicare and medicaid. he said that he would increase military spending so what mitt romney would be left with would be slashing a third of something else. that would be school lunches and veterans benefits. he would have to slash everything else in
i like pbs and big bird and i like you too. but i'm not going to keep spending moneythings i have to borrow money from china to pay for. >> so don't boo now. but i want to make sure i got this straight. he will get rid of regulations on wall street but he is going to crack down on seseme street. thank goodness somebody is finally cracking down on big bird. n who knew that he was responsible for the deficits elmo has to watch out. >> joining me now nbc's joy read. he is going to cut...
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he made a straight shot at the moderator, pbs' jim lehrer. >> i'm going to stop the subsidy to pbs, i'm going to stop other things. i love pbs, big bird, i actually like you, too. i'm not going to keep on spending money on things to borrow money from china to pay for it. >> chris, remember what he told us, he warned us a long time ago, we should have listened, he said he liked firing people he came out on the stage and demonstrated it for us. he was having a wonderful time. this is what we used to do at bain capital, we made a lot of money, this is what i'll do when i'm president. it's easy, just like that. he fired him. >> didn't it seem like he was the boardroom chair, walked into the boardroom, put down his papers, as if there didn't need to be anybody else in the room except employees, some of whom won't be employees much longer. it's a dominant, dominant performance. again, back to the president. what do you think was going on in his head? you have to be in the moment. i would have been terrified if i were the president thinking how dud this person, this not really great governor,
he made a straight shot at the moderator, pbs' jim lehrer. >> i'm going to stop the subsidy to pbs, i'm going to stop other things. i love pbs, big bird, i actually like you, too. i'm not going to keep on spending money on things to borrow money from china to pay for it. >> chris, remember what he told us, he warned us a long time ago, we should have listened, he said he liked firing people he came out on the stage and demonstrated it for us. he was having a wonderful time. this is...
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i like pbs and big bird. and i like you, too. >> i like big bird but he'll be out of a job prompting the rush recreation of @firebigbird that gathered 27,000 followers. and this twit pic viewed over 147,000 times that says, will work for food. an energy bill do? or get the yard ready for cool weather? the answer? a lot less. the great american fix-up is going on now... ...with new projects every week and big savings every day. so you can do what needs to be done. today. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. right now, owens corning ecotouch attik insulation is only $11.87 a roll. [ male announcer ] why not talk to someone who owns an adjustable version of the most highly recommended bed in america? ask me about my tempur advanced ergo. goes up. goes up. ask me what it's like to get a massage anytime you want. goes down. goes down. [ male announcer ] tempur-pedic brand owners are more satisfied than owners of any traditional mattress brand. ergonomics. [ male announcer ] tempur-pedic. th
i like pbs and big bird. and i like you, too. >> i like big bird but he'll be out of a job prompting the rush recreation of @firebigbird that gathered 27,000 followers. and this twit pic viewed over 147,000 times that says, will work for food. an energy bill do? or get the yard ready for cool weather? the answer? a lot less. the great american fix-up is going on now... ...with new projects every week and big savings every day. so you can do what needs to be done. today. more saving. more...
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how did the former gop candidates feel about the mitt romney pledge to stop funding for pbs if elected president? first, rick santorum last night on cnn. >> would you kill big bird? >> well, as a matter of fact, i voted to kill big bird in the past. it doesn't mean i don't like big bird. you can kill things and still like them. maybe to eat them, i don't know. >> you can kill things but still like them? very interesting. >>> on to newt gingrich who went to one zoo after another during his presidential campaign. newt was on cnn last night with former michigan governor jennifer granholm, an active obama supporter, of course. let's take a look. >> newt gingrich, should big bird be killed or not? >> that's total baloney. big bird makes millions and millions of dollars annually. >> save big bird! >> it's a commercially profitable show. >> save big bird! >> you would save big bird? >> i would save big bird by liberating big bird from the bureaucracy. >> jennifer granholm looks like she's still at the convention in charlotte. of course, he's a big bird fan. may look like he and granholm are o
how did the former gop candidates feel about the mitt romney pledge to stop funding for pbs if elected president? first, rick santorum last night on cnn. >> would you kill big bird? >> well, as a matter of fact, i voted to kill big bird in the past. it doesn't mean i don't like big bird. you can kill things and still like them. maybe to eat them, i don't know. >> you can kill things but still like them? very interesting. >>> on to newt gingrich who went to one zoo...
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-pi am going to stop the subsidy to pbs. i am not going to keep spending money on things and borrowing money from china to pay for it. number two, i will take programs that are currentlyygood programs but could be run more efficiently at the state level and send it to the states. number three, i will make government more efficient and cut back the number of employees and combined some agencies and departments. the cuts would be done by attrition, by the way. the president said he would cut the deficit in half. unfortunately, he doubled it. trrllion dollar deficit for the last four years. president has put us in almost as much public debt held by the public as all prior presidents combined. >> when i walked into the oval office, i had more than a trillion dollar deficit reading me, and we know where it came from. two wars that were paid for on a credit card, two tax cuts that were not paid for, and a whole bunch of programs that were not paid for, and then a massive economic crisis. despite that, yes, we had to take some init
-pi am going to stop the subsidy to pbs. i am not going to keep spending money on things and borrowing money from china to pay for it. number two, i will take programs that are currentlyygood programs but could be run more efficiently at the state level and send it to the states. number three, i will make government more efficient and cut back the number of employees and combined some agencies and departments. the cuts would be done by attrition, by the way. the president said he would cut the...
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i'm sorry, jim, i'm going to stop the subsidy to pbs. i like pbs, i love big bird. i actually like you, too. i'm not going to keep spending money on things -- >> let's -- >> let's get back to medicare. the president said the government could provide it at a lower cost without a profit. let's -- >> let's not. let's let him respond. let's let him respond to this specific on dodd/frank and what the governor just said. >> massachusetts governor mitt romney rolling over the debate moderator, jim lehrer, of pbs last night during the first presidential debate of this campaign season. joining us now for the interview is dan rather, host of "dan rather reports" on access tv. anchor of cbs' "evening news" for 20 years and a veteran observer of the campaigns. thank you. >> always a pleasure to be here. >> what is your reaction overall to the debate last night? i am assuing you think mitt romney won the debate. what do you think is important about it? >> i think what's important about it is it gives governor romney a chance to get a second look from the electorate. when he was
i'm sorry, jim, i'm going to stop the subsidy to pbs. i like pbs, i love big bird. i actually like you, too. i'm not going to keep spending money on things -- >> let's -- >> let's get back to medicare. the president said the government could provide it at a lower cost without a profit. let's -- >> let's not. let's let him respond. let's let him respond to this specific on dodd/frank and what the governor just said. >> massachusetts governor mitt romney rolling over the...
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i like pbs. i like big bird and i like you too but i'm not going to keep on spending money from things to borrow money from china to pay for it. that has to be negotiated with congress. when i ran for mayor, i said i was going to cut taxes by a certain level. i didn't know how i was going to do it exactly. i had to negotiate that. so i think he's given as much specifics as president obama ever gave in 2008 when he ran for president, probably a lot more. >> mr. giuliani, just to make sure how much news was made tonight, am i still correct that the romney campaign's official position is they want to extend indefinitely or permanently the push tax cuts on the table, which would cut taxes for high income individuals? i don't think that's a matter of debate yet mitt romney seemed to repudiate that. >> if you extend the bush tax cuts, you keep taxes where they are. if you don't extend the bush tax cuts, you raise taxes. >> they're set to expire. it was your party that set them to expire i would add. i
i like pbs. i like big bird and i like you too but i'm not going to keep on spending money from things to borrow money from china to pay for it. that has to be negotiated with congress. when i ran for mayor, i said i was going to cut taxes by a certain level. i didn't know how i was going to do it exactly. i had to negotiate that. so i think he's given as much specifics as president obama ever gave in 2008 when he ran for president, probably a lot more. >> mr. giuliani, just to make sure...
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i like pbs. i like big bird and i like you too but i'm not going to keep on spending money from things to borrow money from china to pay for it. >> let's get back to medicare. the president said he can provide the service at a lower cost at a lower profit. let me mention the other one. wlets talk. >> no, let's not. let's let him respond to this specific dodd frank and what the governor just said. >> gene? >> this was a tangle if guy seemed to win every team. they never discussed the auto industry. 1k5e >> they didn't discuss the auto industry chen me talked about tax reform. romney was asked, what deductions are you going to get rid of. home mortgage deduction? no specifics. if jim wasn't going to ask the follow-up question. >> he didn't ask any follow-up questions. >> so the president should have asked those questions, i think. >> joy, try this. you mentioned the president came in there to sort of, you know, clinch, if you will, keep the score even and don't overstate anything and don't make it
i like pbs. i like big bird and i like you too but i'm not going to keep on spending money from things to borrow money from china to pay for it. >> let's get back to medicare. the president said he can provide the service at a lower cost at a lower profit. let me mention the other one. wlets talk. >> no, let's not. let's let him respond to this specific dodd frank and what the governor just said. >> gene? >> this was a tangle if guy seemed to win every team. they never...
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how did the former gop candidates feel about the mitt romney pledge to stop funding for pbs if elected president? first, rick santorum last night on cnn. >> would you kill big bird? >> well, as a matter of fact, i voted to kill big bird in the past. it doesn't mean i don't like big bird. you can kill things and still like them. maybe to eat them, i don't know. >> you can kill things but still like them? very interesting. >>> on to newt gingrich who went to one zoo after another during his presidential campaign. newt was on cnn last night with former michigan governor jennifer granholm, an active obama supporter, of course. let's take a look. >> newt gingrich, should big bird be killed or not? >> that's total baloney. big bird makes millions and millions of dollars annually. >> save big bird! >> it's a commercially profitable show. i would save big bird by liberating big bird from the bureaucracy. >> jennifer granholm looks like she's still at the convention in charlotte. of course, he's a big bird fan. may look like he and granholm are on the same page, but newt still wants to do away
how did the former gop candidates feel about the mitt romney pledge to stop funding for pbs if elected president? first, rick santorum last night on cnn. >> would you kill big bird? >> well, as a matter of fact, i voted to kill big bird in the past. it doesn't mean i don't like big bird. you can kill things and still like them. maybe to eat them, i don't know. >> you can kill things but still like them? very interesting. >>> on to newt gingrich who went to one zoo...
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. >> pbs has released a statement accusing governor romney of making pbs a political target and of not understanding the value of the american people place in public broadcasting. how do americans generally view public broadcasting? and its funding? >> i mean, people are generally very favorable of it. pbs did a study last year where 69% of people were in favor of keeping the public broadcasting funding. and that was across party lines, even conservatives favored keeping it to the tune of i think 53%. so it's something people like. and the thing is, it's such a small part of the federal budget. it's less than .01%. with trillion of dollars that's hard for us to figure out. but if you put that in say i made $40,000 a year. that would be about 56 cents out of my annual budget. public broadcasting. >> that's putting it in perspective there. the ceo of pbs, paula kerger points out that federal funding for public broadcasting has been cut 13% just in the past two years. have we felt an impact from that? >> yes, in the places that are going to see more of an impact of that are going to be th
. >> pbs has released a statement accusing governor romney of making pbs a political target and of not understanding the value of the american people place in public broadcasting. how do americans generally view public broadcasting? and its funding? >> i mean, people are generally very favorable of it. pbs did a study last year where 69% of people were in favor of keeping the public broadcasting funding. and that was across party lines, even conservatives favored keeping it to the...
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i'm sorry, i'm going to stop the subsidy to pbs. i like big bird. i'm not going to keep spending on things from china to pay for it. if that's the case, it will be the best product to purchase. my experience is the private sector is typically able to provide a product at a lower cost. >> can the two of you agree, the voters have a clear choice on medicare? >> absolutely. let's mention the other one. >> let's not. >> the last point i would make before -- >> ten minutes is up, sir. >> i had five seconds before he interrupted me -- >> joining us to sort through the debate, the executive editor of politico, jim van dehide. thanks for waking up early. cnn viewers, 67% of them said mitt romney had a better night. what is your view after watching it? >> there's no doubt mitt romney had the night of his political night. he had to have the night he had last night. i can't think of a debate in the 20 years covering this where the gap between the two candidates was this wide. mitt romney turned in a strong performance and the president turned in an uneven perf
i'm sorry, i'm going to stop the subsidy to pbs. i like big bird. i'm not going to keep spending on things from china to pay for it. if that's the case, it will be the best product to purchase. my experience is the private sector is typically able to provide a product at a lower cost. >> can the two of you agree, the voters have a clear choice on medicare? >> absolutely. let's mention the other one. >> let's not. >> the last point i would make before -- >> ten...
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president. >> i like it. >> i will stop the subsidy to pbs. i like pbs. i like you, too. but i am not going to spend monothings to borrow money from china to pay for t. number 2, i will take programs that are good programs that if they are run more efficiently at the state level and send them to the state. number 3, i will make government more efficient and cut employees and combine agencies and departments. my cutbacks will be done through atrittion, by the way. this is the approach we have to take to get america to a balanced budget. the president said he would cut the deficit in half. unfortunately, he doubled t. trillion-dollar deficits for the last four years. the president's put in place as much public debt, almost as much as all prior presidents combine. >> jim: mr. president, two minutes. >> when i walked in the oval office. himore than a trillion-dollar deficit greeting me. we know where it came from. two wars that were paid for on a credit card, two tax cuts that were not paid for and a whole bunch of programs that are not paid for. and then, a massive economic
president. >> i like it. >> i will stop the subsidy to pbs. i like pbs. i like you, too. but i am not going to spend monothings to borrow money from china to pay for t. number 2, i will take programs that are good programs that if they are run more efficiently at the state level and send them to the state. number 3, i will make government more efficient and cut employees and combine agencies and departments. my cutbacks will be done through atrittion, by the way. this is the...
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i'm going to stop the subsidy to pbs. i'm going to stop -- i like pbs. i like big bird, i actually like you, too. i'm not going to spend money on things to borrow money china to pay for. number two, take programs that are good, but would be run more efficiently at state level. i cut back the number of employees in government, combine agencies in departmeand departm. this would be down by attrition. this is what we have to do. the president said he would cult the deficit in half. unfortunately, he doubled it. trillion dollar deficits for the last four years. the president's put it in place as much public debt, almost as much debt held by the public as all prior presidents combined. >> mr. president? two minutes. >> when i walked into the oval office, i had more than a trillion dollar deficit greeting me. and we know where it came from. two wars that were paid for on a credit card. two tax cuts that were not paid for. and a whole bunch of programs that were not paid for. and then a massive economic crisis. and despite that, what we've said is, yes, we had
i'm going to stop the subsidy to pbs. i'm going to stop -- i like pbs. i like big bird, i actually like you, too. i'm not going to spend money on things to borrow money china to pay for. number two, take programs that are good, but would be run more efficiently at state level. i cut back the number of employees in government, combine agencies in departmeand departm. this would be down by attrition. this is what we have to do. the president said he would cult the deficit in half. unfortunately,...
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>> i'm sorry, jim, i'm going to stop this subsidy to pbs. i'm going to stop other things. i like pbs. i love big bird. >> let's not. let's let him respond. >> i get the last word. let me make this comment. >> nope. come on, mr. president, give us a peek under the hood. >> five week before the election he's saying that his big, bold idea is never mind. is the reason that governor romney is keeping all these plans to replace secret because they're too good? is it because that somehow middle class a families are going to benefit too much? ♪ i guess you're just what i needed ♪ >>> we begin with the president criticized as being less than effective last night by hyperventilating pundits across the board, but now getting his own chance to put a spin on the first presidential debate. fresh off last night's face-off, the president is hitting the trail in key swing states. he's just touched down in madison, wisconsin, for a rally within the hour. >>> and earlier this afternoon the president described his own complete and utter surprise at the man he met last night. >> when i go
>> i'm sorry, jim, i'm going to stop this subsidy to pbs. i'm going to stop other things. i like pbs. i love big bird. >> let's not. let's let him respond. >> i get the last word. let me make this comment. >> nope. come on, mr. president, give us a peek under the hood. >> five week before the election he's saying that his big, bold idea is never mind. is the reason that governor romney is keeping all these plans to replace secret because they're too good? is it...
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fund pbs for 500 years. that's republican priority. now when we come back did president obama take it easy on mitt romney because fox news and conservatives kept calling him an angry black man? really interesting conversation. we'll have that when we return. >> jim, you may want to move on to another topic but i would say this to the american people. >> obama does not have the latitude that white guys who start you morning with a daily dose of politics from a fresh perspective. >>i'm a slutty bob hope. the troops love me. >>only on current tv. home of the brave. ♪ ♪ it's where fear goes unwelcomed... ♪ ♪ and certain men... find a way to rise above. this is the land of giants. ♪ ♪ guts. glory. ram. [ ♪ theme music ♪ ] if you didn't notice, this week fox news and a lot of visit websites went crazy over the exclusive video clip they have ofof president obama that they found. except it wasn't exclusive and they ran it back in 2004 when he said it, and they ran it the last campaign, but they are w
fund pbs for 500 years. that's republican priority. now when we come back did president obama take it easy on mitt romney because fox news and conservatives kept calling him an angry black man? really interesting conversation. we'll have that when we return. >> jim, you may want to move on to another topic but i would say this to the american people. >> obama does not have the latitude that white guys who start you morning with a daily dose of politics from a fresh perspective....
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to look ahead to this debate tonight and all for a moment, assume the role of moderator, jim lehrer, pbs, a moderating this thing tonight. let just go around right now, we will start with you, howard. you got jim lehrer's seat, the two questions in front of you -- two candidates right in front of you. what is the one question that you think would you most like to see jim lehrer ask one of these candidates tonight? >> i would focus on mitt romney because this really is it for mitt. i would go right at the central concern. i would say i would ask, governor, bain capital, which you helped to run, had many successes but it also had many failures. the bering company, the typewriter company, name a list of them. have you ever met, have you ever talked to, do you note names of or anything about the lives of any of the people from those plants that closed as a result of the investments of bain cap signal give me a name, give me a story. >> probably knows the ones the obama campaign ads have mentioned, right? >> probably knows those but those aren't the ones he wants to mention. >> probably doesn
to look ahead to this debate tonight and all for a moment, assume the role of moderator, jim lehrer, pbs, a moderating this thing tonight. let just go around right now, we will start with you, howard. you got jim lehrer's seat, the two questions in front of you -- two candidates right in front of you. what is the one question that you think would you most like to see jim lehrer ask one of these candidates tonight? >> i would focus on mitt romney because this really is it for mitt. i would...
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got rid of pbs, jim. you're on the chopping block. you're out. let's go to jim havandehei at politico. good morning. >> good morning. >> for our new viewers just joining us, your initial take on what happened last night. the consensus seems to be that mitt romney had a great night. do you feel that way? >> yeah, i don't disagree with anything i heard in the first 20 minutes. i think you cannot overestimate what a big night last night was for mitt romney. you have to think about the mood going into this debate, his own staff, conservative leaders, republican elected officials all thought that this was a losing campaign. they were frustrated, and they were voicing it publicly. last night they got the candidate they've been praying for the entire campaign, a guy who was cool, a guy who was clever, a guy who was specific and who was middle-class focused. so what that's going to do, you're not going to have the bellyachi bellyaching anymore from conservatives. you no longer will have donors shutting their wallets shut them completely. you won't have t
got rid of pbs, jim. you're on the chopping block. you're out. let's go to jim havandehei at politico. good morning. >> good morning. >> for our new viewers just joining us, your initial take on what happened last night. the consensus seems to be that mitt romney had a great night. do you feel that way? >> yeah, i don't disagree with anything i heard in the first 20 minutes. i think you cannot overestimate what a big night last night was for mitt romney. you have to think...
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. >> romney: i'll cut programs like pbs, i'll make government more efficient and cut back the number of employees, combine agencies and departments. this is the approach we have to take to get america to an balanced budget. the president said he would cut the deficit in half. unfortunately he doubled it. trillion dollars deficits for the last four years. the president has put it in place as much public debt -- almost as much debt held by the public as all prior presidents combined. >> mr. president? >> obama: when i walked into the oaf value office i had a deficit facing me with two wars that were not paid for, tax cuts that were not paid for, a whole bunch of programs that were not paid for, and a massive economic crisis. yes, we had to taken initial emergency measures. but what we have all said is let's make sure we are cutting out those things that are not helping us grow. to 77 government programs everything from aircrafts that the air force had ordered but won't working very well 18 government programs for education that were well intentioned but weren't helping kids learn. we w
. >> romney: i'll cut programs like pbs, i'll make government more efficient and cut back the number of employees, combine agencies and departments. this is the approach we have to take to get america to an balanced budget. the president said he would cut the deficit in half. unfortunately he doubled it. trillion dollars deficits for the last four years. the president has put it in place as much public debt -- almost as much debt held by the public as all prior presidents combined....